UX: Browse, Sync &amp; Share Photos stored on Mobile Devices #1189

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@lastzero commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021):

It's physically impossible (days only have 24 hours) for us to maintain native apps for each device and operating system at the moment - and we don't want to exclude anyone. Also app stores are gated communities, so we would have to pay the 30% Apple / Google Tax on our donations and they can kick us out at any time (for example because they want users to install their own photo apps).

In general, we're totally open and there are a few advantages. Keep in mind though that even many "native" apps are just HTML / JS bundled together in an installable "app" so an existing Web app can be sold in the stores of Apple and Google:

https://vue-native.io/

We may take a look at this as well!

A few of the features can probably also be implemented in the existing PWA using new APIs once we have time for this. Funding is limiting us the most. Not going to run out of motivation and ideas anytime soon.

Note there's a community maintained mobile app: https://github.com/photoprism/photoprism-mobile

Changing our API for it and getting into the code is one of the many items on our todo. Not sure if it implements all or some of your requirements. Let us know!

@lastzero commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021): It's physically impossible (days only have 24 hours) for us to maintain native apps for each device and operating system at the moment - and we don't want to exclude anyone. Also app stores are gated communities, so we would have to pay the 30% Apple / Google Tax on our donations and they can kick us out at any time (for example because they want users to install their own photo apps). In general, we're totally open and there are a few advantages. Keep in mind though that even many "native" apps are just HTML / JS bundled together in an installable "app" so an existing Web app can be sold in the stores of Apple and Google: https://vue-native.io/ We may take a look at this as well! A few of the features can probably also be implemented in the existing PWA using new APIs once we have time for this. [Funding](https://docs.photoprism.org/funding/) is limiting us the most. Not going to run out of motivation and ideas anytime soon. Note there's a community maintained mobile app: https://github.com/photoprism/photoprism-mobile Changing our API for it and getting into the code is one of the many items on our todo. Not sure if it implements all or some of your requirements. Let us know!

deekerman commented

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@srett commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021):

There is PhotpPrism-Mobile, but it's got some issues as of recent, which is why you can only use older versions if you don't want to build a patched version of PhotoPrism.

@srett commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021): There is [PhotpPrism-Mobile](https://github.com/photoprism/photoprism-mobile), but it's got some issues as of recent, which is why you can only use older versions if you don't want to build a patched version of PhotoPrism.

deekerman commented

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@lastzero commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021):

PhotoSync is currently the best solution for syncing your phone: https://photoprism.app/partners

The native apps of Flickr, ownCloud, and Nextcloud are not as good as it by far, so we don't even try with the amount of other work on our list. Why reinvent the wheel?

We don't think viewing pictures ONLY stored on your phone delivers the most value to our users when you can easily upload them in the background and there are tons of great apps for this already. To really compete with Google and gain more users we need this, out of question.

@lastzero commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021): PhotoSync is currently the best solution for syncing your phone: https://photoprism.app/partners The native apps of Flickr, ownCloud, and Nextcloud are not as good as it by far, so we don't even try with the amount of other work on our list. Why reinvent the wheel? We don't think viewing pictures ONLY stored on your phone delivers the most value to our users when you can easily upload them in the background and there are tons of great apps for this already. To really compete with Google and gain more users we need this, out of question.

deekerman commented

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@daniel-callejas-sevilla commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021):

On the topic of picture sync:

We don't think viewing pictures ONLY stored on your phone delivers the most value to our users when you can easily upload them in the background and there are tons of great apps for this already. To really compete with Google and gain more users we need this, out of question.

"Easily upload them on the background" means I take a picture, then need to wait for sync to happen (which can take minutes to hours depending on what connectivity I have and which daemons wake up when) before being able to do a simple action on that picture (e.g. add it to album) on the same device where I took it.

The goal I'd push for is to have one single picture gallery holding my pictures, videos, albums, tags, searches, … across all my devices. I would prefer not needing to juggle three separate apps per device (local gallery, sync tool, photoprism PWA) and still come short of that goal.

So it's not really "push local pics to PhotoPrism" but rather "sync the whole PhotoPrism datamodel (pics, thumbnails, albums, keywords, …) on every device, online or offline". Third-party tools cannot do that.

@daniel-callejas-sevilla commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021): On the topic of picture sync: > We don't think viewing pictures ONLY stored on your phone delivers the most value to our users when you can easily upload them in the background and there are tons of great apps for this already. To really compete with Google and gain more users we need this, out of question. "Easily upload them on the background" means I take a picture, then need to wait for sync to happen (which can take minutes to hours depending on what connectivity I have and which daemons wake up when) before being able to do a simple action on that picture (e.g. add it to album) on the same device where I took it. The goal I'd push for is to have one single picture gallery holding my pictures, videos, albums, tags, searches, … across all my devices. I would prefer not needing to juggle three separate apps per device (local gallery, sync tool, photoprism PWA) and still come short of that goal. So it's not really "push local pics to PhotoPrism" but rather "sync the whole PhotoPrism datamodel (pics, thumbnails, albums, keywords, …) on every device, online or offline". Third-party tools cannot do that.

deekerman commented

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@lastzero commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021):

Keep in mind you have different metadata (fields) available on each device / platform. The PhotoPrism server does more than just rendering thumbnails. Users might also expect some form of duplicate detection, so that they have a view that merges content from all their devices etc... The problem is much more complex than just showing local pictures and adding them to albums.

If that's all you want, we may be able to do it even with the PWA. At the end, it's just a better upload. You can already select albums in our upload dialog. Plus PhotoPrism will detect duplicates if you upload pictures again e.g. via PhotoSync.

I'm not a Google Photos user, so I can't tell if they found a nice solution to this. Probably somehow and probably the user can't decide much. Our users expect choice, which makes many problems much more difficult to solve.

@lastzero commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021): Keep in mind you have different metadata (fields) available on each device / platform. The PhotoPrism server does more than just rendering thumbnails. Users might also expect some form of duplicate detection, so that they have a view that merges content from all their devices etc... The problem is much more complex than just showing local pictures and adding them to albums. If that's all you want, we may be able to do it even with the PWA. At the end, it's just a better upload. You can already select albums in our upload dialog. Plus PhotoPrism will detect duplicates if you upload pictures again e.g. via PhotoSync. I'm not a Google Photos user, so I can't tell if they found a nice solution to this. Probably somehow and probably the user can't decide much. Our users expect choice, which makes many problems much more difficult to solve.

deekerman commented

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@lastzero commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021):

If you use Google Photos, let us know how many metadata fields are supported and if you can sort by different criteria! 🤔

@lastzero commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021): If you use Google Photos, let us know how many metadata fields are supported and if you can sort by different criteria! 🤔

deekerman commented

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@graciousgrey commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021):

I totally get your points. By the way thank you for this nice and descriptive ticket :)
I am sure we will find a nice solution when we come to this. It's just not a quick win.

@graciousgrey commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021): I totally get your points. By the way thank you for this nice and descriptive ticket :) I am sure we will find a nice solution when we come to this. It's just not a quick win.

deekerman commented

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@daniel-callejas-sevilla commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021):

Keep in mind you have different metadata (fields) available on each device / platform. The PhotoPrism server does more than just rendering thumbnails. Users might also expect some form of duplicate detection, so that they have a view that merges content from all their devices etc... The problem is much more complex than just showing local pictures and adding them to albums.

100% agree, it's a complex topic! :-)

I'm not a Google Photos user, so I can't tell if they found a nice solution to this. Probably somehow and probably the user can't decide much. Our users expect choice, which makes many problems much more difficult to solve.

The overall UX that I get with Google Photos is that "all photos can be manipulated equally regardless of sync status, and if sync is needed it happens automagically" with some minor quirks (e.g. you can only download pics that are not present locally, you get suggestions to delete local copy only for pics already in the cloud). There are corner cases, but the main inspiration is that one. And I like it a lot.

@daniel-callejas-sevilla commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021): > > > Keep in mind you have different metadata (fields) available on each device / platform. The PhotoPrism server does more than just rendering thumbnails. Users might also expect some form of duplicate detection, so that they have a view that merges content from all their devices etc... The problem is much more complex than just showing local pictures and adding them to albums. 100% agree, it's a complex topic! :-) > > I'm not a Google Photos user, so I can't tell if they found a nice solution to this. Probably somehow and probably the user can't decide much. Our users expect choice, which makes many problems much more difficult to solve. The overall UX that I get with Google Photos is that "all photos can be manipulated equally regardless of sync status, and if sync is needed it happens automagically" with some minor quirks (e.g. you can only download pics that are not present locally, you get suggestions to delete local copy only for pics already in the cloud). There are corner cases, but the main inspiration is that one. And I like it a lot.

deekerman commented

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@daniel-callejas-sevilla commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021):

If you use Google Photos, let us know how many metadata fields are supported and if you can sort by different criteria! 🤔

I don't know off the top of my head but I was in for a bad surprise, EXIF info is severely trimmed down and the originals are lost forever because I chose the option where they compress my pics instead of keeping originals (under the false pretense of unlimited storage). A mistake I won't make again.

In Google Photos I can't sort by anything. I can view albums, sort pics in albums manually (click & drag), browse all pics by timeline (newest at the top), and browse favorites/archived pics separately. Definitely not enough. PhotoPrism shines here.

@daniel-callejas-sevilla commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021): > > > If you use Google Photos, let us know how many metadata fields are supported and if you can sort by different criteria! 🤔 I don't know off the top of my head but I was in for a bad surprise, EXIF info is severely trimmed down and the originals are lost forever because I chose the option where they compress my pics instead of keeping originals (under the false pretense of unlimited storage). A mistake I won't make again. In Google Photos I can't sort by anything. I can view albums, sort pics in albums manually (click & drag), browse all pics by timeline (newest at the top), and browse favorites/archived pics separately. Definitely not enough. PhotoPrism shines here.

deekerman commented

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@lastzero commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021):

In Google Photos I can't sort by anything. I can view albums, sort pics in albums manually (click & drag), browse all pics by timeline (newest at the top), and browse favorites/archived pics separately. Definitely not enough. PhotoPrism shines here.

Right, that's their dirty secret 🍿

It's pretty much impossible to merge AND sort images from different sources (fast enough) unless you use date and time, which happens to be a universal metadata field available pretty much everywhere. Certainly on your phone and on their server.

In short, they can't sort and have instead implemented the timeline view so that the user can at least quickly jump to other images further away if the date is known (fortunately, many users have good time memory).

It's a workaround, if you will (and also reduces Google's server load and cost). Sure, many people have gotten used to it and no longer know what sorting is. Just like they expect developers to pay 30% Google/Apple tax and upload the most private pictures to Facebook where they first get compressed to death and then stolen...

In a way, we see it as part of our mission to educate less tech-savvy people and the younger generation (who grew up with the "cloud") about what they're missing incl privacy 😉

@lastzero commented on GitHub (Oct 25, 2021): > In Google Photos I can't sort by anything. I can view albums, sort pics in albums manually (click & drag), browse all pics by timeline (newest at the top), and browse favorites/archived pics separately. Definitely not enough. PhotoPrism shines here. Right, that's their dirty secret 🍿 It's pretty much impossible to merge AND sort images from different sources (fast enough) unless you use date and time, which happens to be a universal metadata field available pretty much everywhere. Certainly on your phone and on their server. In short, they can't sort and have instead implemented the timeline view so that the user can at least quickly jump to other images further away if the date is known (fortunately, many users have good time memory). It's a workaround, if you will (and also reduces Google's server load and cost). Sure, many people have gotten used to it and no longer know what sorting is. Just like they expect developers to pay 30% Google/Apple tax and upload the most private pictures to Facebook where they first get compressed to death and then stolen... In a way, we see it as part of our mission to educate less tech-savvy people and the younger generation (who grew up with the "cloud") about what they're missing incl privacy 😉

deekerman commented

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@daniel-callejas-sevilla commented on GitHub (Oct 26, 2021):

It's pretty much impossible to merge AND sort images from different sources (fast enough) unless you use date and time, which happens to be a universal metadata field available pretty much everywhere. Certainly on your phone and on their server.

In short, they can't sort and have instead implemented the timeline view so that the user can at least quickly jump to other images further away if the date is known (fortunately, many users have good time memory).

I'm perfectly happy with "place pictures in albums manually" + "browse everything by timestamp". Any other type of search and automatic classification are secondary to me (disabling all TensorFlow features was my first configuration choice when installing PhotoPrism). Of course this is just me.

I regard this as an example that "good enough is better than perfect."

In a way, we see it as part of our mission to educate less tech-savvy people and the younger generation (who grew up with the "cloud") about what they're missing incl privacy 😉

Being able to have shared albums (issues/98) and having a very simple and seamless user experience (this issue) will help a lot to educate my close family (both young and old). For my personal situation, the strategy would be "do at least what Google Photos does" as the baseline for adoption, and if there is extra bling on top, then that will just push the scales even harder. :-)

@daniel-callejas-sevilla commented on GitHub (Oct 26, 2021): > It's pretty much impossible to merge AND sort images from different sources (fast enough) unless you use date and time, which happens to be a universal metadata field available pretty much everywhere. Certainly on your phone and on their server. > > In short, they can't sort and have instead implemented the timeline view so that the user can at least quickly jump to other images further away if the date is known (fortunately, many users have good time memory). I'm perfectly happy with "place pictures in albums manually" + "browse everything by timestamp". Any other type of search and automatic classification are secondary to me (disabling all TensorFlow features was my first configuration choice when installing PhotoPrism). Of course this is just me. I regard this as an example that "good enough is better than perfect." > In a way, we see it as part of our mission to educate less tech-savvy people and the younger generation (who grew up with the "cloud") about what they're missing incl privacy 😉 Being able to have shared albums (issues/98) and having a very simple and seamless user experience (this issue) will help a lot to educate my close family (both young and old). For my personal situation, the strategy would be "do at least what Google Photos does" as the baseline for adoption, and if there is extra bling on top, then that will just push the scales even harder. :-)

deekerman commented

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@lastzero commented on GitHub (Oct 26, 2021):

We do our best! User experience is very important to us, so thank you for your feedback. We may be lacking some of their features, but so are they lacking important features we have¹. You have to start somewhere, and we've come a long way.

You have to go slow before you can go fast. Keep it simple. Done is better than perfect. Be pragmatic. Stay focused.
— Developer Guide

Sorting is also a basic feature available almost everywhere except in Google Photos. Doing everything exactly the way Google does means removing existing functionality that isn't compatible with their approach. Not all of our users would be happy about that. You could also just keep using their app, unless privacy is your main concern (then why did you use it in the first place?).

I don't like Google Photos personally, and it's not (only) because of privacy. That stopped me from using it as cheap backup storage, which is also no longer possible.

If I had used it, their "high quality" option might have degraded the quality of my images. What good is a perfectly designed, native app if your pictures are ruined and Google can arbitrarily close your account? Not losing my photos is a real core feature for me as it is for others:

Haha, I was still using Google at my most bitter as a former employee. It's more my worry about their increasingly erroneous AI moderation shutting down my account with no recourse.
— Michael Lynch

at least the EU web version still has no map view, although it was announced last year ↩︎

@lastzero commented on GitHub (Oct 26, 2021): We do our best! User experience is very important to us, so thank you for your feedback. We may be lacking some of their features, but so are they lacking important features we have[^1]. You have to start somewhere, and we've come a long way. > You have to go slow before you can go fast. Keep it simple. Done is better than perfect. Be pragmatic. Stay focused. > — [Developer Guide](https://docs.photoprism.org/developer-guide/code-quality/#going-fast) Sorting is also a basic feature available almost everywhere except in Google Photos. Doing everything exactly the way Google does means removing existing functionality that isn't compatible with their approach. Not all of our users would be happy about that. You could also just keep using their app, unless privacy is your main concern (then why did you use it in the first place?). I don't like Google Photos personally, and it's not (only) because of privacy. That stopped me from using it as cheap backup storage, which is also no longer possible. If I had used it, their "high quality" option might have [degraded the quality of my images](https://www.techradar.com/news/google-photos-warns-against-using-its-compressed-high-quality-mode-heres-why). What good is a perfectly designed, native app if your pictures are ruined and Google can arbitrarily close your account? Not losing my photos is a real core feature for me as it is for others: > Haha, I was still using Google at my most bitter as a former employee. It's more my worry about their increasingly erroneous AI moderation shutting down my account with no recourse. > — [Michael Lynch](https://twitter.com/deliberatecoder/status/1442157374819688455) [^1]: at least the EU web version still has no map view, although it was [announced last year](https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/25/21301932/google-photos-redesign-map-view-memories-search)

deekerman commented

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@lastzero commented on GitHub (Nov 30, 2021):

Related discussion on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/photoprism/comments/r5soc6/comment/hmozloy/

@lastzero commented on GitHub (Nov 30, 2021): Related discussion on Reddit: - https://www.reddit.com/r/photoprism/comments/r5soc6/comment/hmozloy/

deekerman commented

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@anarcat commented on GitHub (Feb 19, 2023):

one thing i haven't seen mentioned here is https://github.com/bleibdirtroy/MobilePrism which seems like a decent app

@anarcat commented on GitHub (Feb 19, 2023): one thing i haven't seen mentioned here is https://github.com/bleibdirtroy/MobilePrism which seems like a decent app

deekerman commented